Dedicate Daf 2b to:



דילמא ביאת אורו הוא ומאי וטהר טהר גברא
Perhaps the former
("the sun is down")
signifies the setting of its light, and the latter
("is cleansed")
the man shall be clean.

 
What's the source one has to wait until nightfall to eat Terumah? Perhaps one is permitted to eat Terumah once the sun sets ("the sun is down"), as "the man is (automatically) cleansed" from his impurity?
 
 
The Gemara Answers:
אמר רבה בר רב שילא
Rabbah bar Rav Shila answered:

אם כן לימא קרא ויטהר
In that case the Braisa should have read close
Which is the passive form.
Veyithar.

מאי וטהר
Why does
the verse use active form
Vetaher ?

טהר יומא
To teach that it's referring to Hashem actively ordering
the day
to be
clean
of light,

כדאמרי אינשי איערב שמשא ואדכי יומא.
As people commonly say, "When the sun has set, the day is cleansed."

 
 
 
The Gemara Asks:
במערבא הא דרבה בר רב שילא לא שמיע להו ובעו לה מיבעיא
In the West
(Israel)
, this explanation of Rabbah bar Rav Shila had not been heard, and they raised that question:

האי ובא השמש ביאת שמשו הוא ומאי וטהר טהר יומא או דילמא ביאת אורו הוא ומאי וטהר טהר גברא
The phrase "When the sun is down" means the
complete
setting of the sun, and the phrase "It is clean" means the day is clean, or the former
("the sun is down")
signifies the setting of its light, and the latter
("the day is cleaned")
the man shall be clean?

The Gemara Answers:
והדר פשטו לה מברייתא
They then solved it from a :

מדקתני בברייתא סימן לדבר צאת הכוכבים
For a Braisa taught that "The sign for the matter
("nightfall")
is the appearance of the stars."

שמע מינה ביאת שמשו הוא ומאי וטהר טהר יומא:
One can
conclude from this that the
complete
setting of the sun is
required for Terumah and Shema,
and "It is clean"
refers to
the day
(as explained ).

 
 
 
 
אמר מר משעה שהכהנים נכנסין לאכול בתרומתן
The
said
that Shema may be recited only after
the time the Kohanim enter
the Beis Hamikdash
to partake of their Terumah.

The Gemara Asks:
ורמינהו
This seems to contradict the following Braisa:

מאימתי קורין את שמע בערבין
From what time may the Shema be read in the evening?

משהעני נכנס לאכול פיתו במלח עד שעה שעומד ליפטר מתוך סעודתו.
From the time when the poor man goes to eat his bread with salt, until the time he stands up to finish his meal.

 
 
 
סיפא ודאי פליגא אמתניתין.
The latter part
of the Braisa (the last time to say Shema)
certainly argues with our Mishna.

 
According to the Mishna, the earliest "last" time one may say Shema is (according to the earliest opinion, this is
three hours
into the night). while, presumably, poor people don't prolong their short meal for three hours.
 
 
רישא מי לימא פליגא אמתניתין.
But does the first part
(the earliest time to say Shema)
also argue on the Mishna?

 
 
Opinion First Time To Say Shema
Mishna Kohen eating Terumah (three stars)
Braisa Poor man eating his meal
 
 
The Gemara Answers:
לא עני וכהן חד שיעורא הוא.
No. The poor man's
meal starts when
the Kohen
is permitted to eat his Terumah.

 
So both the Braisa and the Mishna agree that the earliest time to say Shema is at nightfall.
 
 
Opinion First Time To Say Shema Real Time
Mishna Kohen eating Terumah (three stars) Three stars
Braisa Poor man eating his meal Three stars
 
The Gemara rejects this answer:
ורמינהו
But this contradicts
another Braisa:

The Braisa answers:
מאימתי מתחילין לקרות קריאת שמע בערבית
From what time may we begin to read the Shema in the evening?

The Braise cites two opinions:
משעה שבני אדם נכנסין לאכול פתן בערבי שבתות דברי רבי מאיר
1.
Rabbi Meir says: from the time that people go home to eat their bread on
Friday night.

וחכמים אומרים משעה שהכהנים זכאין לאכול בתרומתן סימן לדבר צאת הכוכבים.
2.
But the Sages say
that one may recite the evening Shema
from the time the Kohanim may eat Terumah, whose sign is the appearance of the stars.

ואף על פי שאין ראיה לדבר זכר לדבר
And although there is no proof
that Shema may be recited only after the appearance of three stars,
there is
a hint in the Torah:

שנאמר ואנחנו עושים במלאכה וחצים מחזיקים ברמחים מעלות השחר עד צאת הכוכבים
As a verse says
as it is said, "So we worked the work: and half of them held the spears from the rising of the morning till the stars appeared".

ואומר והיו לנו הלילה משמר והיום מלאכה
And
the verse
continues "That in the night they may be a guard to us, and may labor in the day."

 
 
Opinion First Time To Say Shema Real Time
Rabbi Meir Regular people eat their Friday night meal After three stars
The Sages Kohanim eat their Terumah Three stars
 
 
The Gemara asks a parenthetical question:
מאי ואומר
Why is the second verse needed?

 
From the verse "So we worked the work: and half of them held the spears from the rising of the morning till the stars appeared" alone one could prove that nightfall is when the stars appear. Why bring the verse "That in the night they may be a guard to us, and may labor in the day."?
 
 
The Gemara Answers:
וכי תימא מכי ערבא שמשא ליליא הוא ואינהו דמחשכי ומקדמי
Perhaps night begins at sunset, but the
reason they started at dawn and finished with the appearance of the stars was because they
worked late and started early.

תא שמע והיו לנו הלילה משמר והיום מלאכה
The verse teaches
"That in the night they may be a guard to us, and may labor in the day."

 
They worked only during the day, so whatever time they worked is considered day.
 
Therefore, the night (which is when the earliest time to say Shema) begins when the stars come out.
 
 
However, back to the original question:
 
 
קא סלקא דעתך דעני ובני אדם חד שעורא הוא
We assume
that the poor man and
regular
people generally have the same
meal
time.

ואי אמרת עני וכהן חד שעורא הוא חכמים היינו רבי מאיר
Now if
the poor man and the Kohen eat at the same time
(sunset),
then the opinion of the Sages and Rabbi Meir would be identical!

אלא שמע מינה עני שעורא לחוד וכהן שעורא לחוד
Rather, this proves that that the poor man and the Kohen
eat at
different times?

 
This Braisa says that people don't eat their Friday night meal at sunset.
 
Yet (based on the Gemara's assumption), poor people and regular people eat at the same time (after three stars come out), so the Mishna, which says that Shema must be recited after three stars are visible, must follow the opinion of the Sages, and the first Braisa (which says that Shema may be recited only after the poor eat their bread) must follow Rabbi Meir.
 
 
Opinion First Time To Say Shema Real Time
Mishna Kohanim eat their Terumah Three stars
The Sages In Braisa #2 Kohanim eat their Terumah Three stars
Braisa #1 Poor people eat the bread After three stars
Rabbi Meir In Braisa #2 Regular people eat their Friday night meal After three stars
 
 
The Gemara rejects this approach:
 
The Gemara rejects the above assumption:
 
 
לא עני וכהן חד שעורא הוא
No. The poor man and the Kohen
eat at the same time,

ועני ובני אדם לאו חד שעורא הוא.
But the poor man and
regular
people generally
eat at different times.

 
So the Mishna, Braisa #1, and the Sages agree that Shema must be recited only after nightfall:
 
 
Opinion First Time To Say Shema Real Time
Mishna Kohanim eat their Terumah Three stars
The Sages In Braisa #2 Kohanim eat their Terumah Three stars
Braisa #1 Poor people eat the bread Three stars
Rabbi Meir In Braisa #2 Regular people eat their Friday night meal After three stars
 
 
The Gemara will now bring another Braisa, conclusively proving that the argues on the .
 
 
The Gemara Asks:
ועני וכהן חד שעורא הוא
But does the poor man and the Kohen
eat at the same time?

ורמינהו
It can't be, as another Braisa says:

מאימתי מתחילין לקרות שמע בערבין
From what time do we begin to read the evening Shema?

The Braisa will cite five answers:
משעה שקדש היום בערבי שבתות דברי רבי אליעזר
1.
Rabbi Eliezer says that
one can read the evening Shema
from the time that Shabbos comes in.

רבי יהושע אומר משעה שהכהנים מטוהרים לאכול בתרומתן
2.
Rabbi Yehoshua says
that it's
from the time the Kohanim become ritually pure, and may eat their Terumah.

 
Like the Mishna.
 
 
רבי מאיר אומר משעה שהכהנים טובלין לאכול בתרומתן
3.
Rabbi Meir says
that it's
from the time the Kohanim immerse
(so as to be able to partake of their Terumah)

אמר לו ר'
=רבי
יהודה
(
Rabbi Yehuda
asked
him:

והלא כהנים מבעוד יום הם טובלים
"But don't the Kohanim immerse during the day?
)

ר'
=רבי
חנינא אומר משעה שעני נכנס לאכול פתו במלח
4.
Rabbi Chanina says
that it's
from the time the poor man goes home to eat his bread with salt.

 
Like Braisa #1.
 
 
ר'
=רבי
אחאי ואמרי לה ר'
=רבי
אחא אומר משעה שרוב בני אדם נכנסין להסב.
5.
Rabbi Achai
(another version:
Rabbi Acha
)
says
that it's
from the time when the majority of people go home to have their evening
meal.

 
And now, the Gemara will prove that the poor man eats his meal after the nightfall (when the Kohen can eat his Terumah.)
 
 
ואי אמרת עני וכהן חד שעורא הוא ר'
=רבי
חנינא היינו ר'
=רבי
יהושע
And if
the poor man and the Kohen
eat at the same time
, then Rabbi Chanina and Rabbi Yehoshua hold the same opinion.

אלא לאו שמע מינה שעורא דעני לחוד ושעורא דכהן לחוד שמע מינה.
Must be that the poor man and the Kohen eat at different times.

The Gemara Asks:
הי מנייהו מאוחר
Which of the two is later?

 
Does a poor man eat his meal after nightfall or before?
 
 
The Gemara Answers:
מסתברא דעני מאוחר דאי אמרת דעני מוקדם ר'
=רבי
חנינא היינו ר'
=רבי
אליעזר
It is more probable that the poor man is later. Since
it cannot be that the poor man eats his bread before nightfall,
since then Rabbi Chanina and Rabbi Eliezer would hold the same opinion,

אלא לאו שמע מינה דעני מאוחר שמע מינה:
So it must be that the poor man
eats his meal
after
nightfall.

 
 
Opinion First Time To Say Shema Real Time
Mishna Kohanim eat their Terumah Three stars
The Sages In Braisa #2 Kohanim eat their Terumah Three stars
Braisa #1 Poor people eat the bread After three stars
Rabbi Meir In Braisa #2 Regular people eat their Friday night meal After three stars
 
 
 
אמר מר
The teacher stated above:

אמר ליה רבי יהודה
Rabbi Yehuda asked
Rabbi Meir:

והלא כהנים מבעוד יום הם טובלים
"But don't the Kohanim immerse during the day?

The Gemara Asks:
שפיר קאמר ליה רבי יהודה לרבי מאיר
Rabbi Yehuda's asked a good question.
What would Rabbi Meir answer?

The Gemara Answers:
ורבי מאיר הכי קאמר ליה
Rabbi Meir
would
answer him thus:

מי סברת דאנא אבין השמשות דידך קא אמינא
Do you think that I agree with your
definition of
twilight?

אנא אבין השמשות דרבי יוסי קא אמינא
I agree with Rabbi Yossi's opinion,

דאמר רבי יוסי
For Rabbi Yossi said:

בין השמשות כהרף עין
The
duration of
twilight is like a flicker of the eye,

זה נכנס וזה יוצא ואי אפשר לעמוד עליו
The night comes on and the day passes without anyone being able to perceive it.






Translation copyright by the OpenGemara project. If you would like permission to use our data, please contact us

Dedicated in loving memory of Leah Rivka Bas Reb Dovid HaKohen A"H.
Last build: 2019-01-31T02:13:58Z